Hi Hocky,

I am not sure what type of keronsang you had at the moment.  But if its imitation stones, it could be a costume jewelery keronsang.  In the past, even for the not-so-rich nonyas, they would sometimes own keronsangs made from yacob stones.  (Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard yacob stones are the outer-most layer of a raw diamond i.e. not so strong and not so good quality and poor clarity)  Zirconas are Russian man-made crystals... I do not think such crystals were around during the 1920s-1940s.  Otherwise in the past, other than intan or yacob stones, crystals like garnet, amelyst or rubies were often used.  I heard some nonyas call these stones "Batu Delima".  Delima - pomegranate seeds.  So I guess in the past, I guess nonyas were already knowing their stones well and already appreciating the finer things of life.

For nonyas, I noticed they had alot of silver keronsangs.  It is a common practice that if there is a funeral, they would wash the gold away.  When there is a grand function, they will plate it back to gold.  It is a cheap alternative for some peranakans who were the not-so-rich ones.

For keronsangs, the earliest I know of is the "Ibu-Anak" keronsang, which is worn together with the baju panjang.  If I suspect correctly, there are some ibu-anak keronsangs made out of pure solid gold or silver.  I guess such keronsangs are worn with the Malaccan/Indonesian style baju panjang.  As the malaccan/indonesian version, bugis cloth were used for making the gown.  The cotton material could be thicker and stronger and able to withstand the weight of the heavy keronsangs.

While there are keronsangs made with hollows inside.  Not because jewellers want to cheat people or somthing.  Organdie, voiles were popular later among the penang nonyas to make into their baju panjang. If one wears the solid gold/silver ibu-anaks, their gown would tear.  So I believe the hollow ones were created for that purpose.

That is why when nonya kebayas came into fashion.  dun be surprised to see keronsangs with fine strips of gold/silver soldered together with intans or batu delimas on them.  Though these keronsangs may look big, but they were light and suitable to be worn with the nonya kebayas.

If others have views of otherwise, feel free to write in.  To exchange more ideas.

Rgds

Jyun

Oh no!!! I always thought they were genuine diamonds so I will be richie rich, but you are now telling me they are more like worthless reject shop diamonds which were the first cut stuff, maybe you are right. The first cuts took away all the dull and spotted and carbon blackened parts of the diamond stones leaving the much clearer and more sparkly, clearer VVS1 or VVS2 sections which are worth a lot of $$$ when cut well into the round brilliant cut stones of 1 carat or more. The recent cheap sale diamond assessories at many shops in Sg and Msia all use the cheaper marked diamonds so no wonder they can be sold so much cheaper. If you are not careful, you can be cheated simply by the salestalk, beautiful salesgirls, beautiful shop decorations and displays. Look for the larger stones where you can spot the spots or cracks or blurred/milky parts and go by your own assessment of their quality and price, not the listed price. If you can check the stones with a magnifier, you can buy one or ask the jeweller. The second test is the beeping electronic tester which can detect diamond or fake or glass. However we cannot tell if the reading is correct at all, maybe they turn it on at a level that will beep all the time so I test it with my watch glass top which is sapphire crystal and also the glass they have on the counters, then I go straight to the diamond and don't let them handle the tester before this. If the salesperson says they don't have the tester or magnifying glass or say its not working or don't have batteries, walk away as for sure they are lying and know you are smarter than the average buyer. I bought some for resale, but have only sold a few since people won't buy privately as they don't trust you and secondly you don't have a jeweller's printed valuation which will cost another $50 to $100 or more. If you had, they will think its fake anyway, hahaha.

Hi Hocky,

As for the diamonds, usually for myself, I do not put them into priority.  Once I met someone who claimed to work in christie's ever mention to me.  That true enough, the gold and the type of diamonds used will affect the value of the item.  but when antiques are dealt with, there is another factor that appreciates its value like workmanship AND historical value.

What makes our nonya jewelery valuable despite its inherent value aint so high, is the workmanship.  For instance, keronsang, the gold are carved thinly, finely with intricate designs.  The intans , they are all irregular cut diamond skin, and the skills of the old craftsmanship is how well they set the irregular diamond skin nicely into the keronsang.  These are skills long losts.

For your information, last time after the intans are cut our, what is left behind would be intan pontianak or they called it "old mine cut Berlian"  Its not the fine cut diamonds like the europeans have.  but diamonds itself and facets are given all around the whole diamond itself.  If any nonya jewelery has those diamonds, they worth almost double or more than intan.  As next time if you wat to recut those old-mine cut berlian into solitaire diamonds, you still can do so.  Usually old-mine cut diamonds are almost with no blemishes.

For diamond tester, it will always beep.  coz stones like we heard before like "Yacoob stone" are also diamond, but is the most outer layer of the raw diamond whch explains why its greyish and dull. 

For batu delimas, they come in all shades from purple to pink to pinky red to dark fuscha red.  But when you test it, they could be almethyst, rose quartz, garnet or pigeon blood ruby.  Arent those semi precious stones too.  The most difficult is to see whether its garnet or pigeon blood ruby.  coz their colours and sparkle are almost similar.

Sometimes we come across old nonya rings with pearls and jade.  Jade for instance, if the wearer dont wear it often, the jade colour's become dull which it becomes a B-grade jade.  But why people still buy the jewelery, coz the cutting of the jewelery cannot find anymore.  anyway B-grade jade when a new owner wears it long enough, it would revive back again.  That's why I feel its the design, the cutting and historical value should place more emphasis on our nonya jewelery value.

It comes with experience whether you buy is the real thing or not.  but usually the stones are not a factor for me.  coz today if you bring a gold ring and a diamond gold ring to a pawnshop, the pawn shop people disregards the diamond, only concerns the gold.

So when I buy, I am more interested in the designs the cut, the historical value like when its made, i would always look at the stones last.

Rgds

Jyun

Hi Hocky,

Which pawnshop did you go to?  I would like to visit that shop too. 

Rgds

Jyun

The pawnshop we went to was somewhere near the Bedok MRT station on the city going side where the shopping centre is. Now you ask me I am not so sure. However, there is a second hand shop there where you can buy anything second hand like electrical stuff, cameras, and jewellery. Thats a good source, but further on round the bend, there is a good pawnshop that is where we went to and bought some nice stuff. The stuff looks pretty real, we tested ourselves and looked for the gold marks whether 18K or 20K should be alright, but beware of imitations with the same marks, I can't tell for sure unless you have a bottle of acid in your pocket to test with, then you run the risk of burning yourself, ha ha ha. As far as the stones are concerned, the fakies do look quite fake, look at the cutting and clarity and reflectiveness. Nowadays, the CZ and "Russian diamonds" do look pretty real. We went to a wedding last week and the ladies were wearing such shiny stones and for some a bit to many and too big to believe. Some wore smaller versions and they do look pretty real and from background knowledge I know they can afford the real stuff and at that size too. I have to go by the beeper test and thats enough to concern me with. Prices seem to be about half price after hot bargaining. Ask for a valuation certificate if there's one. Back off when they say they don't have one, its only a jeweller manufacturer's certificate or they'd send you one in a week's time. Or they say their beeper is not working or don't have one. Apart from this its your risk whether second hand or even brand new as they have all been polished and chemically cleaned to shine like stars. Watch out for those pesky ceiling downlights which magnify the diamond's shine a thousand times. When you've bought it and gone home to look under home room conditions or indirect sunlight you will be very disappointed! Where's the shine from the shop??? Apa lah, I got a fake or a low grade stone? Don't blame Hocky alright?

Hi Hocky,

Its my 1st time hearing that there is a brass English Link nonya belt... I thought its usually silver.  How does your link belt look like?

Rgds

Jyun

I have just tried to get the greenish calcification off the metal plates by soaking in detergent for 2 days and some have come off and I am surprised. Now I am using pink Autosol on them and rubbing them down to get the shinier copper colours. Apparently its not silver at all. I was in Penang and found some alcheapo chrome plated copies at Sunway I think or was it at another budget store. The links are oval shaped bent wires connecting the plates at the square 2 top and 2 bottom corners. The centre pattern on the metal was engraved on and it looks like some kind of 4 petalled flower. The top and bottom sections of this look a bit like an upside down apple on top and a right side up apple on the bottom of the flower. The right and left patterns are like a stretched apple missing its bottom part due to its joining the top apple with the bottom apple and the centre flower piece. There are 24 plates with a large belt buckle of the same material with a larger flower among leaves pattern.

Hi Hocky,

You washed the belts in autosol... wont it spoil your belts...

Rgds

Hi Jyun,
The belt still looks very messy and sad, but I am back to work now after the holidays and cannot find the time to mess around with the polishing of the belt. Perhaps I will do it on weekends when I am free or even look to see if it can be plated by a company doing silver or chrome plating. It will be very expensive here, but I have done some gold plating to belt buckles before, but that was done in Singapore at a shop. Cost me a packet, but it came out very well and shiny too. Jyun, have you seen the Chinese genealogy and China history forums I referred to in my other posts? They are very interesting especially the China History Forum site, the people there are really knowledgeable. The only thing is they are not very good on Straits born/Peranakan history except for the China side and which provinces and cities/towns they actually came from like Guandong and Xiamen/Amoy. They mention mainly the Hokkiens, Cantonese and Hakkas, reasons why they went to SEA, Phillipines and Indonesia and elsewhere, but no details which is what I am looking for. The writers are mostly overseas Chinese from Singapore, USA and Canada and elsewhere including some who are Europeans too. They appear to be very well read and researched and their chats are very detailed in many cases like the China dynasties and Emperor history and Imperial weapons, armour and so on. You can find so much detail there you won't find in most books. Cheers.

Hi Hocky,

Next time, you come to Singapore, go to Malaysia at the same time.  Most goldsmiths in Malaysia do washing services at an affordable rates.  Even if you go down to JB it is relatively cheaper than Singapore.  (If you go to other parts of Malaysia (other than KL too)it would be more cheaper than JB.)

Nevertheless, I recommend you bring back in your next hols, and wash them back here.  From my experience, polishing only helps maintaining the shine.  If it gets too tainted, still have to send for washing.

Rgds

Hi Jyun,
Yup, good idea. I am already planning my next trip to SG and MY end of this year or beyond! Maybe we will also drop in on Thailand(Bangkok, Phuket) and/or Vietnam(both main cities so many of our friends have been to and have given good reports) and also maybe East Malaysia like Sarawak and Sabah. I've been to Sabah and Kalimantan many years ago and met a few of the locals and had very nice fresh prawns and chilli sauce plus fresh river fish. Also ate the tough curry chicken after the loser of the cock fight was put away.

The nonya sarong belt is on my table growing greener and browner each day. Thats bronze being weathered by the water vapour in the atmosphere. I may polish it again this weekend, but we have other plans too.

We may even go to Hongkong/Macau depending on whether I strike the jackpot. Please pray for me huh? When I win it, I will tell you how much it is. Isn't gambling a Peranakan activity also? Like cheki and mahjong my grandmother used to play every weekend. Then I can do the casino rounds in Macau and in future in Singapore too!

This forum is progressing along very well since the new year after I asked EXO to modify it and try some new ways to attract new members here. Very good lah! Well done EXO!!! ;)

Hi Hocky,

Where have u been all this while?  There has been some activity and participation from some new members.  Hope more will come and view the forum and partake in peranakan info sharing.

Cheers

Jyun

Hi Hocky, you should post a picture of your boat to show us one day.  It sounds so cool... I dont think anyone in singapore could own such boats so easily nowadays.

Hi Hocky, I also trying out myself, coz I had this picture of the pandan serani now. but can't seem to post it up...

Hocky & Jyun

Am looking for a shop in Spore which sells Silver Kerosang for my 92 yrs old ah ma. Going to try out Geylang Serai, Roxy Square and Katong Shopping Ctr later. Pls let me know is there any other places I can get.

Many thanks.

Cheers

Hi Jaslyn,
Sorry, I'm not there at the moment and can't tell you exactly where to find those things. Your guess is as good as mine. Probably somewhere in Geylang you will find a goldsmith which sells those kerosangs which are of the Peranakan style. I can't tell the difference. Probably you can find more of the Malay styles which may have been modelled after the Malaysian designs out of Kelantan or somewhere. Also please try if you can find someone selling them out of Joo Chiat or Katong shops. To get a good picture of the real stuff, do visit the Peranakan Museum in town and take some pictures (use your mobile phone camera as that won't upset the attendants there) and go around looking for those which look like them or close to. Apart from this please ask Jyun as he is the one who knows a lot about them. Take care with the prices and what you are getting. Gold will be a lot heavier and silver lighter. Purposely bring along a strong magnet and test if the metal is actually steel plated with gold or silver. There are a lot of crooks out there these days making a fast buck from people who are not street smart!!! Solid gold may be more like hollowed out gold items and are therefore lighter unless there is lead inside!!! Gee at 92 she must be really panjang panjang umur lor!

Hi Jaslyn,

You can visit this place 109A East Coast Road, 2nd level of Kim Choo Kueh Chang.  You should be able to find kerongsangs you may need.  If you are looking for vintage silver kerongsangs, they have them too.

Cheers,

Jyun

i am looking to buy old kerosang. The round big 3-piece style.
Any idea where?
I do have budget :(

Hi Yorkie,

The round 3-pc style old kerongsang is quite difficult to get.  Often you go around old antique shops, they would only sell one on its own, rarely 3 pcs.  You can try katong antique house, or straits antique.  They might hold such kerongsangs. 

Rgds

Hi there

Many many thanks for the lobangs. I have also found nice kerongsang at :

1. @ Roxy Square Level 2 near the escalator - $12.90; and
2. do visit the Paris Bijoux counter @ any shopping centres (Taka/Isetan/Metro/Robinsons eg) - Range from $115.90. U can really find nice kerongsangs. Now OG selling at 20% discount! Very good buy. ;)

Hey Thks everyone!i remember picking up this Foundation Jewellers brochure. I will go and find out

Dear Gentlemen and Ladies,

I have recently came to possess a brooch that is part of a 3-piece kerosang; gold with intan. Need your comment on its worth. It used to belong to a grand-aunt.

Thank you.

Hi Taucheong,
Thats a very nice piece of old fashioned jewellery you have. I would like to have one if I can find it somewhere. The stones look like diamonds, but could be something else I don't know. The stones do not have the usual diamond cut we are familiar with, but in those days maybe thats the way they were finished. You could send it to a trusted jeweller to confirm their authenticity and he/she should be able to confirm its gold content and using their eyepiece and electronic beeper on the stones, they should be able to give some kind of value for it as a piece of real jewellery, but its vintage/collector's value needs someone who is dealing with them to put a price on it. There is someone here who can do this for you, let you know who it is later.

Taucheong,
Contact Alvin at the_intan@hotmail.com and he should be able to give you some advice and info on old Peranakan jewellery and their values as keepers or sellers.

Sometimes, it would be better to just keep such things as old family heirlooms and don't try to sell them at all. I have a piece not as good as yours and was told that the stones are not real diamonds and should be some crystal or imitation gemstones which I thought were not even invented during those olden days. Maybe they are the discarded and not so good real diamond stones with spots or other marks. Sometimes the people who value them try to put a lower value so you may want to sell it to them at bottom dollar and they make heaps out of it later. Good luck.

Thanks Hocky,

Yes, I am more inclined now to keep this piece than to sell it. Thanks so much for your suggestion. The next mission is to find, hopefully, another two pieces to make it into a set.

I will contact Alvin to learn more.

Thanks and have a great new year. 

Hi Guys

I have been looking for the 3 pieces round kerosang for a long time and found it. The seller wants to sell me S$2.8K. Is that a gd deal or too exp?

Hi Yorkie,

You have to decide on your own whether you like the design or not.  At the end of the day, you are buying an antique for its design, workmanship and lost craftsmanship.

If you find that the craftsmanship is intricate and fine; its antiquity value is rather long; gold color and intans are quite okay,why not, if you like it alot.  We are unable to give professional advice on something we did not see and you have to see it for yourself and decide. 

But you must always remember at the end of the day you are buying and antique piece, if its original value is higher than the price you are paying, its good for you.  If you find that the price you are paying is not worth its intrinsic value (i.e. weight of gold and intans only), and you buy it, you have to accept that its an antique.  Coz right now you are buying an old kerongsang of many years of age and you are buying its antiquity value and mainly its design. 

I always buy things within my budget.  If I can buy, I buy.  If I cant afford, dont think anymore.  If you think that its expensive, then don't think about it as it would make one extremely uncomfortable.  I have that feeling before, wanting to own but cant own.

So Yorkie, you have to search your heart if you really like it and feel that you deserve to own it.  If yes, try bargaining slightly lower price that the seller could afford to let go at.

By the way, where is this seller at?  I want to go and have a look at the kerongsang too. 

rgds

Dear Yorkie,

In everything that we buy, it is very difficult to put a price on something without seeing it. It can be a kerosang with 10 carat diamonds or it may be one made of silver and crystals. So, it can cost from $100 to $80,000.

Furthermore, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you may pay for $1000, another person may value at $500.

As you can see, buying is a very subjective topic.

I too love kerosangs and have more than 30 sets, excluding the loose pieces. They range from plain silver sets, to silver set in stones, to gold, to gold set in diamonds. All my pieces are antiques and vintage ones. They have better workmanship than the modern molded ones.

I simply love kersongs because it is versatile and can be used as a modern day brooch.

You can go to shops like Katong Antiques and Kim Choo at Katong. Several shops at Tanglin Shopping Centre also carries kerosangs.

Happy shopping!
Cheers!
Bunga_Telang

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the advices. I appreciate it. This seller is thinking of selling it due to some finance difficulties. I see how best I can get a pic and share with all.

Cheers  :D

Hi.

Does he has more than your set to sell? I am also keen.

Cheers

one and only one only  :-[

Hey Tau Cheong

The design is the same as the pic you posted on the other section of the forum page.

Hi Yorkie,

Lucky you. I have been trying to find two other pieces to match my current one to complete the set. I am sure it will bring you great pleasure and blessing.

Cheers

Hi all,

FYI, there is an auction of a fine collection of Nonya Jewellery this Sunday at at Hotel Royal. See ST.

Hi Taucheong

Thanks for your advice.

Anyway what time is the auction?
;)

Hi

Viewing start at 10am on Sunday, if i remember correctly. It is in Straits Times today. Who know we may just bump into each other without knowing.

Hi Yorkie,

If you are getting the kerongsang, do post it up for us to see.  I believe it may be a good buy as round serongs founded in set of 3 is rather hard to find in the first place.  As long it is sold at a price affordable/reasonable to you, I believe it will be a good buy to you.

Rgds

Hi All

I am selling a kerongsang intan for S$888 on ebay.  You might be able to view it using the address below. I'm not sure if it'll work! = )

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Nonya-Peranakan-Straits-Chinese-kerongsang-brooch_W0QQitemZ330300440040QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_216?hash=item330300440040&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1240%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Dear Jyun,

I believe that you may have mistaken. Serong do not come in sets of 3. They are either accompanied by 2 round, or, 1 round with 1 floral.

Cheers!
Bunga_Telang

Now I am confused, is it a kerosang or is it a kerongsang????? ???

Dear Hocky,

Don't be confused, lah.

Malays call it "keronsang" while we call it "kerosang".
Similarly, Malays call "tepak sireh" while we call "tempat sireh".

There is even confusion with "nonya" and "nyonya".
I prefer "nyonya" as it is closer to the way we pronounce the word.

Cheers!
Bunga_Telang

Hi Hocky

Sorry if I confused you!

Bunga Telang is absolutely right regarding the words "kerosang", "nyonya" and "tempat sireh" - used by the peranakans. ;D

If I may add my 5 cents worth of knowledge.  Kerosangs always come in a set of 3.  The ones worn with the kebaya are different from the ones worn with the baju panjang.  The kerosang worn with the latter has 1 large one (called "ibu") at the top, followed by 2 smaller ones.

Dear Kim,

The ibu need not be the topmost kerosang. For some designs the ibu is the centre-piece.

Kebaya uses the kerosang rantay. These come in chains.

Cheers!
Bunga_Telang

Hi

Is it ok to buy an old kerosang that is gold plated for $300?
the stone is grade lower than intan.

Dear Yorkie,

It is ok for a piece like yours if they are really old. You are paying for its rarity, antiquity and workmanship.

However, similar designs that are newer can be bought for half that price.

Cheers!
Bunga_telang

Would anyone be able to recommend me how to maintain the condition of the Kerosang or someone who specializes in ascertaining the quality and maintenance of such jewelery? I would very much appreciate any advise?
Thanks

Hi Zigzag

Nice kerosang..

Hi Zigzag,

I may be wrong, but these look like new kerosangs and not the old kerosangs with intans. They look exactly like those from Foundation Jewellers at Holiday Inn.

Hi Zigzag,

Nice set! Can I buy it from you?

Regards
Bunga_Telang

heya all. i am new around here and wonder if i may join in the discussion by asking a question? i have recently seen a set of 3 kerosang made of silver with low grade emerald set in them. i want to make an offer, but have no clue how much is fair for something like this. the opening price was SG $1600. any advise? thanks so much and i am learning heaps!