Hi,

I am not a peranakan myself but really facinated by peranakan culture after watching little nonya, great show.Just curious,
your name sounds more like korean than chinese, are you half-korean, half-peranakan?

Thank goodness I did not even watch it. Or I would go blue in the face -- or even throw things at the telly -- upon spotting the off-tangent inaccuracies.

I thought they have got some true-blue Babas as advisers to the programme?

Don't mean to be picky, Jyun, but "Mamak"?? As in the Mamak ["uncle"] shop?  :D

Hi Curious,

If I put my name in Chinese 黄俊荣... would it sound more cina than korean now. heehee.

Cheers

Thank you wonjyunyung for starting this thread. :-*

For me the show is utterly disgusting but I'll continue to watch
to see more of their stupid mistakes. :-\
All the Peranakan patois used in the show were wrong pronounced
with their "cheena gerk" accent.
Moreover, Xiang Yun wore her sarong wrongly, referring to the length
of her sarong in the lst or 2nd episode.
And also I fully agreed with betul_baba, wrong tone of calling grandma. We addressed as "Ma Ma" and not "Mamak" like the Indian Mamak stallholder. ??? >:(
Also, the kebayas worns are more of mourning colours.
Will the real Babas and Nonyas please stand up! 8)

Frankly speaking, I was quite excited when i heard about the making of the drama Little Nyonya. My first reaction was, this is a good platform to reach out to the masses and promote the Peranakan culture.

However, as more trailers and news came out, it suddenly dawn on me there is a fundamental problem with the whole thing: the language used is not right because the cast will be speaking mainly in mandarin . The baba patios is a unique mixture of english, malay and hokkien, thus there are lingos/expression which are left out. This affect the feel and depiction of life in a peranakan household. The other drama "Sayang Sayang" portrays a better depiction of the peranakan culture. Perhaps because it is english-based, thus the producers have a free reign to include peranakan lingos and expressions, which gives it a more authentic feel.

Although i am quite pessimistic about the outcome of the show, i did catch a few episodes, just to see how will it be like...I have to say that they put in alot effort in terms of the set and dressings of the cast,  but the issue still remains... the feel is not quite rite. I ask my dad if he wanted to watch the show... apparently he is not very interested... he said that it's not authentic so he does not want to watch... he said it's best to watch the plays by gunung sayang/peranakan association.

Just a few comments about the show:
[list]
[li]The language used does affect the feel of the show. The cast speaks mainly in mandarin, the person who uses slightly more peranakan words was Pierre Png; he mentioned the word mama (and he did pronounced it correctly ;) ) and tok panjang[/li]

[li]There was a scene where the whole family was having their dinner and eating with their hands. It is quite interesting to see how awkward the cast are with using their hands to makan.[/li]

[li]There is one part of the story, which i din quite like (maybe it's just me). There is this part where Lin Mei Jiao thought that Jeanatte Aw is seducing her son-law-in and sends a killer to get rid of her. Perhaps this is for the sake of dramatising the story  but it kinda gives a negative feeling that peranakan first wives are so evil. Din like it...[/li]

[/list]

I did not bother to watch for a simple reason .. I don't understand the language. ... err more like refuse to understand.

Why even bother go into this when it can be done in proper Peranakan Patois and then do a translation. As it is, many are deprived of listening to proper Peranakan Patois.

Now, coming to the production of this show. One should question who is behind it or at least playing a part in advisory role as far as peranakan culture is concern. If the person is a peranakan, then he or she will have to take some accountability. If the party knows even with his or her advice the show WILL go wrong, then perhaps he or she should not have embarked on this journey altogether.

Tolong la sikit ... sakit kuping kalu dengar dia mia chakap .. Lebih baik tutup kuping, tutup mata. Sebelah mata tak boleh tengok, sebelah kuping tak boleh dengar!

I was so happy when the show came out and encouraged my friends to watch it. But they were shocked by the show that the casts are filled with evils and the matriarchs are so mean. My friend said is a sad culture and asked me is it all peranakans are so hard to get along? They decided not to watch it  :'( ???

Maybe the tv station should do one that is of more humours and comedy to allow better apreprication of the culture!


[quote author=sketch link=topic=269.msg1090#msg1090 date=1228638760]
Frankly speaking, I was quite excited when i heard about the making of the drama Little Nyonya. My first reaction was, this is a good platform to reach out to the masses and promote the Peranakan culture.

However, as more trailers and news came out, it suddenly dawn on me there is a fundamental problem with the whole thing: the language used is not right because the cast will be speaking mainly in mandarin . The baba patios is a unique mixture of english, malay and hokkien, thus there are lingos/expression which are left out. This affect the feel and depiction of life in a peranakan household. The other drama "Sayang Sayang" portrays a better depiction of the peranakan culture. Perhaps because it is english-based, thus the producers have a free reign to include peranakan lingos and expressions, which gives it a more authentic feel.

Although i am quite pessimistic about the outcome of the show, i did catch a few episodes, just to see how will it be like...I have to say that they put in alot effort in terms of the set and dressings of the cast,  but the issue still remains... the feel is not quite rite. I ask my dad if he wanted to watch the show... apparently he is not very interested... he said that it's not authentic so he does not want to watch... he said it's best to watch the plays by gunung sayang/peranakan association.

Just a few comments about the show:
[list]
[li]The language used does affect the feel of the show. The cast speaks mainly in mandarin, the person who uses slightly more peranakan words was Pierre Png; he mentioned the word mama (and he did pronounced it correctly ;) ) and tok panjang[/li]

[li]There was a scene where the whole family was having their dinner and eating with their hands. It is quite interesting to see how awkward the cast are with using their hands to makan.[/li]

[li]There is one part of the story, which i din quite like (maybe it's just me). There is this part where Lin Mei Jiao thought that Jeanatte Aw is seducing her son-law-in and sends a killer to get rid of her. Perhaps this is for the sake of dramatising the story  but it kinda gives a negative feeling that peranakan first wives are so evil. Din like it...[/li]

[/list]



[/quote]

[quote author=yorkie link=topic=269.msg1095#msg1095 date=1228813966]
I was so happy when the show came out and encouraged my friends to watch it. But they were shocked by the show that the casts are filled with evils and the matriarchs are so mean. My friend said is a sad culture and asked me is it all peranakans are so hard to get along? They decided not to watch it  :'( ???

Maybe the tv station should do one that is of more humours and comedy to allow better apreprication of the culture!
[/quote]

I guess they are trying to highlight the sufferings, which jeanette aw's character has to go through at home and in life. But i feel that they kinda overdid it by portraying her relatives as being extremely mean and bullying (bordering on abusive).

Frankly speaking, it will be very unrealistic to say that bullyings never happen at all; there is always the good, the bad and the ugly. Even in current context, we see maid abuse cases being reported in the papers every now and then.

However, such negative character portrayals may affect viewers impression of the peranakans, especially when majority of the viewers are not very familiar with our culture.

I agree with you that they should make it more humorous and comical, something like "Sayang Sayang". Thought the feel of the show was good; also the portrayal of the various characters was quite close to real-life. Last but not least, it is a light hearted comedy which really made me laugh  ;)

Good points made regarding portrayal of negative behaviours. Perhaps this is what the producer wants to project! Sad! Its amazing to see local dramas seems to love melo-dramas as compared to the ones in the US like Desperate Housewives and Casmere Mafias to name a few. I think they have moved on from the melo-dramas and into more light-hearted comedy or if its violent, its almost real violent. Frankly, after a days work of stress, and this is going to be more adamant in the near future due to the economic woes, I think we don't need sad stories. We need more up-lifting shows.

Even stage shows put up by GSA which always have its melo-dramas has the funny side .. shall I say more of the funny side with lots of puns and sometimes sexual connotations.

I hope its the last of their attempts as clearly they are not capable of doing a good job. Also perhaps those who had any part to play in the production will not further encourage and advice on these issues.

[quote author=anakbaba link=topic=269.msg1098#msg1098 date=1228877440]
Good points made regarding portrayal of negative behaviours. Perhaps this is what the producer wants to project! Sad! Its amazing to see local dramas seems to love melo-dramas as compared to the ones in the US like Desperate Housewives and Casmere Mafias to name a few. I think they have moved on from the melo-dramas and into more light-hearted comedy or if its violent, its almost real violent. Frankly, after a days work of stress, and this is going to be more adamant in the near future due to the economic woes, I think we don't need sad stories. We need more up-lifting shows.

Even stage shows put up by GSA which always have its melo-dramas has the funny side .. shall I say more of the funny side with lots of puns and sometimes sexual connotations.

I hope its the last of their attempts as clearly they are not capable of doing a good job. Also perhaps those who had any part to play in the production will not further encourage and advice on these issues.
[/quote]

Yeap, agree with you that we do need more uplifting shows. With the recession, work/life is going to get more and more stressful.  Hopefully they can produce better dramas in the future.

Personally i find that GSA's play are quite light hearted and comica. The tone, vocal expression of the cast can be quite funny. Although the storylines can be quite melodramatic, but they did not overdo it just to portray how "pai miah" the lead character is. ;)

Perhaps there is a difference btw TV and stage production...

Hi Nya Sharon,

I had not been closely following the Little Nonya since I work very long hours most of the time till 10 or 11pm.  But sometimes when my little sis recorded for me, I would get to see it.

Somehow... the show in the beginning was very nice and interesting... but a big turn to the show which made me feel odd... since the main actress Juxiang came into the second part of the story... the part she was always bullied here and there... It made me feel strange... It seems to portray quite badly on Peranakan people ... hmm... are wimps and evil people.

I had some Peranakan auntie customers calling me after 10pm telling me how come the story made Juxiang looks so smart at one point and so stupid to another point that she is always getting bullied willingly.  While some auntie customers called me telling me, that true enough bibiks in the past are very fierce ladies.  But there is a fine line differentiating "Yam" and "Hiong".

Most bibiks are "Yam" which means fierce and strict, which means they also have a heart.  But the show portrays "bibiks" as "hiong" ladies.  "Hiong" which means fierce and evil hearted.

You know, I even have a old Baba customer calling me one evening in a sad tone "Why the poor Juxiang had to be thrown into the well like when she and her mother kena thrown into the sea before?  I feel so sad I don't feel like I want to continue to see the show and feel sad.  I don't want to see the show with bibiks so "hiong"."

When I heard about it, I felt sad... as it made one feel bad that Babas and Bibiks are portrayed in a bad limelight.  But it is also good in a sense that this shows had stirred up alot of good feedback as many customers had been more interested in peranakan culture because of the show.  The show though it may not be that good in the second part, but it is great that it stir up many people putting up views about life in the past and how it should be.  Hope these comments would improve TCS production further if they do another show on Baba culture.

Anyway, lets treat it as another usual drama and enjoy it.

Cheers.

Hi Anakbaba,

It seems that the TCS had done alot of research.  However, the script does not feel Peranakan enough.  The scriptwriter may not be a Baba.  It would do good if he/she seeks a proof-reading from a few Babas to get some things set correctly.

But from what I know, it seems there are a few people advising the TCS in the production of the shows.... But maybe.. they were invited to advise on decor, food and culture... not on the script... maybe that is why it is not appealing to we Babas. 

Cheers.

The show is a bit of exaggerating. Old bibiks may be fierce but they are not evil like in the show.  :) My grandma & mother are really fierce and strict when I was growing up.

wonjyunyung, my apologies but they will not get my empathy. If they had done a lot of research, there can only be good response. Feedback is only good if one gets positive or constructive feedback. From this thread, it does not seem so.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/20081218/ten-275-little-nyonya-wants-judge-her-2fbb342.html states Little Nyonya as "mega drama of the year"  .. Who are they kidding? Any melodrama for channel 8 is a mega drama. I think it should be called melo-mega drama! If the chinese speaking viewers love it, its because they can relate to it. If it was alien to them, they probably would not have liked is as much. Imagine doing a Bollywood movie in mandarin. The characters were given such obnoxious behaviours as its probably one way to engage viewers, just like sex and violence in western shows. But since sex is not "permited" and violence is too expansive to portray (due to high cost), they can only depend on evil vs good scenarios.

I think one big thing is the language. You can't express the same things with 2 different language. So basically its "lost in translation" if I may say so. Perhaps they should have it somewhat mixed. Let the nyonyas and bibiks speak in Peranakan and translate while the rest gerk(oops .. hope no one is offended) can speak as they please.

As I don't watch it except glimpse of it at a coffee shop that I hangout with my biker friends, my words are no more than just my opinion. Hypocritical it maybe, its only up to those that read this to reach your own conclusion. I just needed to speak my mind and this forum just gives me that opportunity. :)

So, to those that see it from my point of view, good. If not, ignore my sentiments. Its biased for a reason and I think many will understand why. ...:)

I can only hope they won't try this stunt again. Please go back and do the usual Chinese Dramas and Melo-Dramas which they are probably good at.

sketch, thanks for seeing this in the same light.

hi new to forum but i think there must be something said abt dramatisation n fact..i can understand why ppl are upset abt being portrayed as evil as the women in little nonya but i think in the context of those times, some of it might be true. Some of it i think also applies to chinese families ie the status of the being a mistress.. also this is to make the show appealing to the ch8 audience(or so the producers think)

the positives of the show i think is that of course some of the women do break free of this gender slavery..i think the contrast with the modern scenes with fel chin point to the fact(so far) that the main character(yueniang) does triumph over her 'evil' sisters and women in general have better choices now..  ;) my two cents worth..

however I do wish they had gone with more authentic language but how many non-malay actors can actually speak Malay,hokkien,english?alt Mel gibson did it in his previous two movies apocalypto n the passion, they spoke an extinct language some more..

but overall i think they show deserves some credit la..

Hello all -- I thought I am the only who thought exactly as anakbaba about sticking to what Chair-ner Egg [sorry, Channel 8 but this is how the gerks/totoks/orang sinkeks typically pronounce right? Even study until so high high] are good at: Mandarin melo-mega-dramas.

RL: if you [u]care to read carefully[/u], the crux of the entire argument put forth by us *GENUINE* Babas is not so much about Nyonyas being portrayed as Evil women. Or what they call in Hokkien,[color=red][b] chiat char bor[/b][/color] [yes, I was called this too by some classmates behind my back but were warned off to be careful by some].

It is the whole essence of getting OUR CULTURE wrongly.

Further, I do feel that Chair-ner Egg's entire exercise in showcasing OUR CULTURE is pointless. Instead of EDUCATING [haha, ever since when?] their audience, they CARICATURE the entire community. Case in point? Getting all the facts wrongly which many have had pointed out below.

I believe anakbaba -- and others -- are distressed over this because such CARICATURING only serves to perpetuate inaccurate myths about us *GENUINE* Babas.

Perhaps you are a non-Baba, RL. Or a youngster of half/quarter/one-eighth Baba blood who have no inkling of what some of us older ones gone through many moons ago. Having to hear all sorts of RACIST remarks hurled at our faces.

In fact, the other day at the Peranakan Museum I still heard a BIG group of them going on about us being "[b]you qian ren, you qian ren, you qian ren[/b]" -- RICH PEOPLE.

If that is not envy for having to repeat thrice to emphasise goodness-knows-what, perhaps YOU RL care to explain what it is?

Even the Museum girl was p*ssed-off and recounted same to me after overhearing such unnecessarily racist comments from other big groups. And she is an Arab to boot.

So what if we are [i][b]you qian ren[/b][/i]? Why got PLOBREM isssit??

Even after many of us were SUBJUGATED AND FORCED by the Ministry of Education to learn CHINESE AS SECOND LANGUAGE?? Just because we happen to have a **Chinese** name? And many more marrying into Gerk/Totok/Orang Sinkek families??

That perhaps explain why we are resentful of this CARICATURING by Chair-ner Egg?  If they really and truly are respectful of OUR CULTURE, they would put in the extra effort to ENSURE that every single prop right down to the last kerosang and sanggul is as accurate and authentic as possible.

Surely, they can engage the fine amateur actors abound, speaking in Malay and Hokkien, and then have SUBTITLES IN CHINESE?

Not too difficult, or is it? Please tolong lah ah, there is always [u]a lame pathetic excuse or three[/u] for putting up half-baked efforts.

Not to mention, their bigoted behaviour and prejudice shine through. Educating / Enlightening the Chair-ner Egg audience my backside.

With that I rest my piece. And in the meanwhile, I shall await for some non-Nyonya attempting to wear sarong kebaya. With the sarong tiga suku... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHA

Regards
betul_baba?

Hi betul_baba?

First of all i have to say that i have the most respect for peranakan culture and also people who have survived the tough times in this country. My opinions of the show are based on some of the posts here and also other forums who have pointed out why the characters in little nonya are being portrayed as 'evil'.

Of course there are also other opinions on culture which i have not commented on as this is quite a sensitive subject. I recall other movies by other respectable directors that have also tried to tackle 'culture' or race and have drawn many criticisms and opinions. Have they failed? yes if you take into account the many inaccuracies in language, culture etc. In my own opinion i feel ch8 should take a step up from melodrama and have higher production values but at the same time i think there are also other aspects that could be taken as positives.

I believe many of us can agree with respect to some of the episodes of little nonya, the women actually talk about freedom and being liberated including the main character portrayed by jeanette aw. In my opinion this is a positive. I agree there are caricatures but so does some of the so called better hollywood movies. It seems this is a short cut way of connecting to audiences(every sitcom relies on this formulae),Phua Chu Kang is a fine example.

Another positive as i see it is that it gives non-babas like myself an interest in finding out more about the straits chinese n also the history of the country more in depth. I think any thoughtful viewer would do the same.

Finally i have no problems with you or me being rich  ;D

Hi everyone,

Actually everyone has a point to every reason they give.  I feel I am more of a optimistic person like RL.  Though there are many inaccuracies or some extremism in the drama.  At the end of the day, it is a drama.  Most important, it creates more awareness of our community.  It would be a great chance to correct the inaccuracies to the little ones out there who wants to know more.

Actually, in the drama, some extremism sometimes has to be practised to create a connection to the viewers.  E.g. kungfu shows, you and I know how can a kungfu master fly here and there with so-called "Qinggong".  Though there is such a kungfu "Qinggong" but in TV they materialised it as a flying stunt.  Everyone found it exciting and fun to watch.  However, despite hearing alot of bad comments of the show from many people, I also received some comments from some old peranakan from their side of their stories for the past one week in my working place.  Surprisingly their stories are of the special cases in our Peranakan community (aka minorities) but it did happen to them.

E.g. one old nonya who is also my old neighbour in Joo Chiat Place, told me she did not get married as her stepmother prevented her from meeting prospective husbands.  Even after all her stepsisters got married, she was left on the shelf.  Her stepmother would treat her well in front of her father and when he isn't around, she would treat her badly like a maid.  When she reached 50 when her father and stepmother left this world, she was asked to get married to another Baba around her age, not to give birth kids, but to have companionship.  But after few years marriage, her husband kena stroke and now she has to look after him, instead of companionship to look after each other.  Now when I see her, I always feel sad for her as she is now 78 plus plus around the same age as my MaMa, still have to look after he bed-ridden hubby while herself she looks frail and sickly sometimes.  If you ask around the old nonyas and babas around Joo Chiat Place, you will DEFINITELY know her.  She saw the show and said she was reminded of her "PAI MIA SIA".  And sadly to say, this put her off and she did not want to see the show to remind herself of her "Pai Mia Sia".  Anyway there is a picture of her in her younger days in Datin Endon's kebaya book. 

Another case was a Teochew lady from Hougang who married a Baba was telling me her late mother-in-law used to tell her that her stepmother was bad to her.  She was always ill-treated and never got the chance to go to school. However she was not looked down by the stepbrothers and sisters.  When she reached 18, she was match-made to get married.  But her stepmother purposely got her married to a man 20 over year older than her age.  But her stepbrothers told her it was better to "gei lau ang" (married old husband) rather than always get bullied by mother.    She was telling me her mother-in-law never seen her father-in-law.  All she knew was her husband was rumoured to be "Tanglin Ah Seah" (A term my customer told me it means Tanglin rich good man) just like his name "Heng Nan" (lit means "Lucky Man").  Her mother-in-law's fate turn for the better after the marriage.  I was told that this Tanglin Ah Seah was so rich that his family donated the big old bell which is still on the Church of Nativity.

There is one old bibik who is a regular customer of mine (aged late seventies),when she saw the little nonya she was reminded of her poor elder cousin.  She said when her family used to stay at Tembeling Road (near the cross junction of Koon Seng Road) during WWII her elder cousin was forcely taken away from a Japanese officer and later made his mistress for being a "Nia Chor" and she bore him a male child.  Though after the war, the Jap left her, this poor cousin was looked down and scorned by alot of people in the Old Joo Chiat neighbors as a traitor and the son was called "Jip Poon Kia".  The poor "jip poon kia" was often bullied from what the old bibik said.  Worse still the poor half baba resembled more "jip poon"...

There are lotsa stories of such like a drama.  There are some nonyas who still be able to relate themselves to the drama even though it is a little extreme in terms of the bullying and bitchfighting.  Maybe most local peranakans could not relate the drama because in Singapore, most Babas and Nonyas are educated and reasonable people because of the British education.  Most of them were not unreasonable people.  Most probably that could  be a reason most local peranakans would adhere their beliefs there are no such thing as peranakan people are NOT "HIONG". But anyway, RL I understand what you meant and I will still give some support to the show even though its extremism is little too much.    At the end of the day, its better to just treat this as a leisurely discussion.  Coz at the end of the day, we younger generation did not live through the before war, during the war and shortly after the war period. I believed the writer himself, anak_baba and Betul_baba, you all also did not go through all those. Only those aunties around my Ah Ma's age (70 ++) will clearly know how is it like and sadly to say slowly one by one they are disappearing...  only they themselves will know what kinda life they or their relatives/friends went through.  Betul?

Haha I think I am getting a little side-track. Anyway better go and sleep now, good nitez!!

Rgds

[quote author=betul_baba? link=topic=269.msg1143#msg1143 date=1229691272]
Hello all -- I thought I am the only who thought exactly as anakbaba about sticking to what Chair-ner Egg [sorry, Channel 8 but this is how the gerks/totoks/orang sinkeks typically pronounce right? Even study until so high high] are good at: Mandarin melo-mega-dramas.

RL: if you [u]care to read carefully[/u], the crux of the entire argument put forth by us *GENUINE* Babas is not so much about Nyonyas being portrayed as Evil women. Or what they call in Hokkien,[color=red][b] chiat char bor[/b][/color] [yes, I was called this too by some classmates behind my back but were warned off to be careful by some].

It is the whole essence of getting OUR CULTURE wrongly.

Further, I do feel that Chair-ner Egg's entire exercise in showcasing OUR CULTURE is pointless. Instead of EDUCATING [haha, ever since when?] their audience, they CARICATURE the entire community. Case in point? Getting all the facts wrongly which many have had pointed out below.

I believe anakbaba -- and others -- are distressed over this because such CARICATURING only serves to perpetuate inaccurate myths about us *GENUINE* Babas.

Perhaps you are a non-Baba, RL. Or a youngster of half/quarter/one-eighth Baba blood who have no inkling of what some of us older ones gone through many moons ago. Having to hear all sorts of RACIST remarks hurled at our faces.

In fact, the other day at the Peranakan Museum I still heard a BIG group of them going on about us being "[b]you qian ren, you qian ren, you qian ren[/b]" -- RICH PEOPLE.

If that is not envy for having to repeat thrice to emphasise goodness-knows-what, perhaps YOU RL care to explain what it is?

Even the Museum girl was p*ssed-off and recounted same to me after overhearing such unnecessarily racist comments from other big groups. And she is an Arab to boot.

So what if we are [i][b]you qian ren[/b][/i]? Why got PLOBREM isssit??

Even after many of us were SUBJUGATED AND FORCED by the Ministry of Education to learn CHINESE AS SECOND LANGUAGE?? Just because we happen to have a **Chinese** name? And many more marrying into Gerk/Totok/Orang Sinkek families??

That perhaps explain why we are resentful of this CARICATURING by Chair-ner Egg?  If they really and truly are respectful of OUR CULTURE, they would put in the extra effort to ENSURE that every single prop right down to the last kerosang and sanggul is as accurate and authentic as possible.

Surely, they can engage the fine amateur actors abound, speaking in Malay and Hokkien, and then have SUBTITLES IN CHINESE?

Not too difficult, or is it? Please tolong lah ah, there is always [u]a lame pathetic excuse or three[/u] for putting up half-baked efforts.

Not to mention, their bigoted behaviour and prejudice shine through. Educating / Enlightening the Chair-ner Egg audience my backside.

With that I rest my piece. And in the meanwhile, I shall await for some non-Nyonya attempting to wear sarong kebaya. With the sarong tiga suku... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHA

Regards
betul_baba?
[/quote]

Hi betul_baba. I'm not a Peranakan, but I've always loved and admired Peranakan culture. Sadly, however, ur post left me shocked and shaken. It isnt the show tt leaves me with a bad impression of Peranakans, (because I, like most viewers with a reasonable degree of intelligence, can tell when exaggeration and extrememism is used to dramatize a plot).

Instead, it is ur arrogance in the tone of ur reply and the sense of exclusivity u portray of your culture that puts me off. So we "cina" orang sinkeks are inferior to u? What era is this? Do u see us Chinese as "sinkeks" or, from what I understand of the term-- "new immigrants" to this land still? (while u are truly "locally born"?)

And what makes u think tt when pple term u as "you qian ren", they mean it in a derogatory way? It's a truth that many early Peranakans were well off, because of their drive, business acumen and capabilities. Isn't tt sth to be proud off? Why be so hurt and sensitive and jump to the conclusion tt pple are criticizing u?

To think tt I spent so much time researching and reading up abt Peranakan culture with interest and enthusiasm. So this is the attitude tt Peranakans have about "outsiders" to their culture?

Still, I will try to be rational, hurt and angry though I am. I would like to believe tt there are fair, non-extremist Peranakans out there who do not harbour tt elitist, exclusive attitude of yours.

Hi justice:

"Why be so hurt and sensitive and jump to the conclusion tt pple are criticizing u?"

EXCUSE ME, if you [u]CARE TO READ CAREFULLY AND DIGEST[/u] what I posted, that BIG group of cina sinkeks said it [b]*THRICE*[/b] and may I add in a [u]CONDESCENDING TONE[/u]. Even that ARAB museum worker encountered same from other groups and was irked and fed up too.

And for your sake, I copy and paste again:

"Even the Museum girl was p*ssed-off and recounted same to me after overhearing such unnecessarily racist comments from other big groups. And she is an Arab to boot."

So, according to your definition, the Arab girl also JUMPED TO CONCLUSION, and also was very sensitive? Like yours truly??

I would be more than glad to give you her name and email for clarification purposes.

So, what do you EXACTLY MEANT that I jumped to conclusion??  Is it [u]absolutely necessary to say[/u] [b]you qian ren[/b] THREE TIMES? Some more in a CONDESCENDING TONE that one can almost feel the venom?

Perhaps you justice can tell me WHY?? That is exactly my grouse. By the way, [u]my comment was made in response to RL[/u]. And RL did not react adversely like you do.

So get a grip. I am sure my "extremist [hur, hur] views" paled in comparison to some that you inevitably come across in life.

Talk about sensitivity. If you are not happy with my attitude, stay away.

And just because of one black sheep -- aka yours truly -- surely that is NOT enough reason for you to stop loving the Baba Nyonya culture?

Oh by the way, if you are truly a long-time admirer of the culture, surely you would know by now that we prefer to use the more correct term **[b]Baba[/b]**. Or **[b]Baba Nyonya[/b]**.

Peranakan is a new-fangled term forced upon by whomever. And a tad of a misnomer. Peranakan WHAT?? Peranakan Cina? Peranakan India? Peranakan Jawi? Peranakan Serani?

If you were to go to Melaka or Indonesia and say "Peranakan", they would look at you strangely.

Oh and by the way, what's with the "tt", "sth" and whatever else?? This "old" auntie is not merely ignorant. She prefers a proper communicative style.

One last word for you to chew on. If you think that I am being harsh by calling you "sinkek" [from the HOKKIEN "new guests"], what about our neighbours up north calling their ethnic Chinese and Indians: Penumpang [Squatters], Pendatang [Immigrants], Penduduk [also Squatters]??

Are you going to get your knickers in a twist?

So should I whenever I hear people still calling me "Baba Seow" -- Mad Baba -- OR "Orang Cina Bukan Cina", OR whatever.

Like I said, talk about sensitivity.

Hi RL -- A much belated thank you for your kind response. I appreciate that you did not react adversely to my post.

And I apologise rather belatedly for what was surely written when my blood is boiling. Ya, ya, why apologise after saying something elitist, exclusive -- and God forbid, extremist.

Anyhow, what you and Jyun said have set me thinking. Besides, after the "rebuttal" from justice, I think I had better calm down.

Not good for the blood pressure.

I would be happy to share with you more about the culture if you wish so. Or even start an informal Cakap Baba session too  :D

Merry Christmas
betul_baba?

Hi Betul Baba.

I apologize if I have offended you. But I hope you understand THAT (not tt, for your benefit ;)) if your blood can boil after reading other people's posts which you don't agree with, my blood can boil too, after I read a post which I find offensive. And just as you have the right to "react adversely" to RL's original post, I have my right too. So I'm sorry if I, in a fit of anger, misread what you said about the "you qian ren". Just like how you don't like being called "Baba Seow", I don't like being called an "orang sinkek" too. You talk about the need for sensitivity, but I didn't see any of that in your original response--which is why I was naturally upset.

I am fully aware that true blue people from your culture prefer to be called Baba Nyonyas. I do recall the curator of the new Peranakan Museum mentioning that during one of his lectures which I attended. But the term Peranakan is used so commonly now, even by people of this forum who belong to the culture, surely it is a little unfair to attack me for using that term? Are you not mocking this very site itself, which is the platform for the "Peranakan Association"?

"And just because of one black sheep -- aka yours truly -- surely that is NOT enough reason for you to stop loving the Baba Nyonya culture?"
If you read my reply carefully, no where in my post did I say that I stopped loving your culture just because of you. Perhaps you inferred that from the agitated (or whatever you see it) tone of my reply but I hope you understand how upset I felt then, having spent so much time learning about this culture with enthusiasm, talking to people about it, only to see such a scathing attack that made me feel so much like an "outsider" looked down upon for my bad English ("Chair-ner Egg") among other negative traits, all of a sudden?

You know, my initial response to your new reply was a wave of fury too. But after reading one of the new messages in my inbox I calmed down considerably. I would like to thank that person who explained matters to me, particularly the attitudes of Baba-Nyonyas from older generations, which were shaped by their experiences, and welcomed me so warmly, making my anger melt away. Thank you so much :D. I hope there are many more like minded Peranakans like you; people who are willing to welcome interested outsiders to the culture with an open mind and positive attitude instead of harping on past matters.

Anyway, this is irrelevant to the topic at hand, but I would like to ask the difference between the term "Nonya" and "Nyonya". I recall the curator mentioning that the term spelled "Nonya" is preferred over the other "Nyonya " by people from the culture, but it seems otherwise based on responses I have read. Anyone would care to clarify? Thanks!

Hi all

First up Happy New Year to all in advance  :D

I hope once everyone has cooled down we can just enjoy some friendly discussions and maybe have a laugh and chat ya...

In fact I hope to enjoy the food as well..as i'll be trying to cook some chicken curry with a little nonya flavour later! (apologies i do not know the actual name of dish)

Let's all try to look on the bright side of things alt there are many little things that irritate us haa..

Back to the show..i think most of the characters have really tragic ends..esp the nice girl yuzhu..think she didnt really deserve that..and i'm quite intrigued as to who is felicia chin's mother?

enjoy the last day of 2008!

If you had watched the Little Nyonya Reunion on Chinese New Year, you would have noticed that the greeted viewers "umur panjang panjang" instead of "pangjang pangjang umur".

Obviously, they have not been properly coached.

In Malay, "red apple" is "apple merah" but in Chinese it is "hong pingguo" (ie) "red apple" (adjective + noun). Languages cannot be translated word for word. We must take into account the grammar too.

Totally agree with bunga_telang(sorry but I can't help this - bunga_telang_jang :) ... would it mean naked flower?).

Its ok if the show is done in Baba Malay and had translation to Chinese or whatever language. Somethings just cannot be translated. Imagine doing a Chinese Dynasty movie in baba malay! I am sure many Chinese will ridicule the use of inappropriate language.

Now don't know under whose instruction the incorrect protrayal has gone international - http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/20090401/tap-188-the-little-nyonya-stars-charm-in-231650b.html Now the whole world thinks Peranakan speak Chinese!

To grammer errors, imagine the saying "pantat Panjang" = "Panjang Pantat!" :) I hope the readers know what this means. And to those that don't, find out. You'll remember better :)

Why not send Phua Chu Kang to Cannes and tell the world thats how Singaporean speaks English! Bloody clowns!

There is no doubt this show has given the Peranakan Culture much needed exposure but is this the right way? Unfortunately the Peranakans have nothing to say nor do about it. Everyone keeps mum about it or at most bark like a dog, like me!

Perhaps like the many holy books, people are ok with the many different perceptions... or are they?

Hi anakbaba,

Does that mean in old days catholic churches, there is no Baba Melayu bible or hymns?

In the past, there are Peranakans who do translations of Chinese literature into Baba Melayu. I had seen those old collection of books in Katong Antique House too.

Does that mean... Peranakans then when they read these Chinese literature also would think that the Chinese characters in China also speak Baba Malay... Does that mean Peranakans then would think that people in Israel also speak Baba Melayu?

Rgds...

Ikan Tong San sua makan umpan .... :) .. Jangan Marah ... :)