Hi Elmer,
I can't help you, but please try info@chinatownology.com ( look for Mr Chan) which I think is based in Singapore and they have direct links with the Hokkien Huay Kuan and other Chinese clans in Singapore and maybe all the way back to mainland China too. Send them a help message and see what they say. Otherwise, look at the Chinese clans in Singapore listed on the net and you will find their postal addresses and also phone numbers too for you to make a direct contact with them. They may charge a search fee if I am not wrong, so be prepared.

The other places to do your search is Thehouseofchinn.com which may be China based or even based in Canada or the USA if I am not wrong. If you can't resolve your problem searching for the towns or villages, do look at the Chinese History Forum on the net and you will surely find someone there whether from Singapore, China, USA or UK or Canada who will tell you exactly where the places are in China and how you can get there yourself!!!! Good luck.

Hi Elmer,
I have just searched the whole map of mainland China and all the towns , but not villages and what luck! I have found probably the 2 towns you are searching for, but I cannot guarantee they are the correct ones. The first one is called Ping Shan( your Peng Shan) and this town is north east of Shenzhen which is the great new industrial city close to Hong Kong. The second one is Longjie (your Long Xi) and this town is close to and north west of Kunming. Please ask around to see if anyone is familiar with these towns and let me know if I made the correct choices. I have also asked people in mainland China to help me, but they may only be familiar with towns around where they live unless they have some geographical knowledge or map knowledge. All the best.

Hello, thank you for your effort. That is great. However, the Ping Shan of Hong Kong is written as 屏山, which is quite different. And for Long Xi, people have suggested that this may be Zhangzhou near Xiamen, as Long Xi is the old name for that city

regards,
Elmer

Hi,

It sparks great curiousity for me to see that the same ancestral cemetary, same surname, but different village.

By right, it should be the same.  I had spoken with a customer of mine who happen to be very involved in a Chinese association.  He said that such cases could be of the following:

(1)  In the past, there are cases of rich families, with no sons, but daughters only.  So there are cases of chinese males marrying into the family of the girl's family and accepting the surname of the girl's family.  Thus, the chinese males are immediately regarded as part of the family, and their daughters will be graded as daughter-inlaws.  Therefore, when the "son-in-law" pass away, his tomb may include a different village name because he is originally from a different village from his wife's parents.

(2)  In the past, there are cases of rich families, no children, they adopt boys as their own sons.  So this could be the reason in the tomb, there could be different village name.  BUT. I mention "but".  Usually by Chinese practice, if you are adopted son, you follow the adopted parent's village name. 

We are unsure of your actual history of your family, so the above are assumptions which was made.  Might not be true.

By the way, LongXi is at Zhangzhou near Xiamen. Coz on the internet, people from Fujian Longxi is from the Zhangzhou region.

See: http://www.travelchinaguide.com/cityguides/fujian/zhangzhoutraveltours/

As for Pengshan... this is the curious part for me.  The pengshan which you mention to us and spelled in Chinese, I checked the internet, its in Taiwan.

I not sure if china has another place by the name of pengshan, but what I can find is penglai.

Rgds

 

Hello,

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

The family Lie from Jombang was certainly a very rich family.

According to the tombstone Lie Tjong To had three sons: Lie Tiang Hok, Lie Tiang Lok and Lie Tiang Sioe. I know that their wifes were respectively Kho Liem Nio, Han Liat Nio and Ong Kian Nio. So the women did not come from the family Lie, so I think we can rule out option (1)

I also found the Peng Shan in Taiwan. From what I can see on Google Earth it is just a tiny village. Since the family Lie were clearly Peranakan and over 70% of Peranakans on Java originated from Fujian, I was wandering if LongXi could indeed refer to the big city or county of Zhangzhou and that Peng Shan, the name which was used a generation earlier, could be a more detailed name (less overall). Maybe a village which was incorporated in the expanding city of Zhangzhou?

In april I will visit the graveyard of Djombang and I will look for the grave of Tiang Hok's brother Tiang Lok and for the grave of Tjong To's father. According to the stories in the family, Tjong To came to China when he was a young boy, accompanying his father (whose name I don't know). Maybe he was buried in Jombang as well.

If you want, I can send you pictures of the grave and the inscription.

regards,
Elmer

Hi Elmer, I am posting a reply from Peter Lee on your question.


Dear Elmer

There are some details about Jombang in the series, "Chinese Epigraphic Materials in Indonesia" by South Seas Society, 3 Vols, 1997.  You can perhaps find it in Select Books.

In Vol 2, Part 2, pg 771 there is a reference to Lie Tjiang Hiok who is described as the first lieutenant of the Chinese in Jombang, who was appointed in 1906.

Leong-khay, or Longxi is the old name of the county capital of Cheangchew or Zhangzhou, according to "A Dictionary of the Hok-keen Dialect', by  W.H. Medhurst, Batavia, 1832.

Apparently Cheangchew had 7 districts in the 19th century: Leongkhay (Longxi), Cheangpoh (Zhangpu), Lamcheng (Nanqing), Teangtay (Changtai), Pengho (Pinghe), Cheow-an (Zhao an) and Hayteng (Haicheng).

Hongsan or Pangsuah (Fengshan) may be  a small village in Leong-khay? Perhaps its best to check with

Chang Chow General Assn
14 Yan Kit Rd Singapore 88266
Tel : 6221-8802

OR

Leong Khay Huay Kuan
92 Amoy Street
#01-02
Tel: 6442 5914

The lady at Chang Chow General Association says that they have a big map somewhere (they just renovated).

For anyone looking for clan Associations, you can search under:

http://www.eguide.com.sg/productservice-30820A-clanassociations-Singapore,Asia.html

The town or district often refers to where the deceased came from, or where his ancestors came from. On women's tombstones, the native or ancestral village of the husband's family will be recorded at the top.

Best wishes

Peter Lee
Research & Information
The Peranakan Association

Alphen a/d Rijn: January 29, 2010
Hello Elmer,
Maybe we should go back to the many changes happening between the 1950's and 1980's when mainland China reshuffled many departments and prefectures belonging to the greater Zhangzhou area.
As we know Zhangzhou is not only a city, it is also the name of the "greater" sub-province, located west and southwest of Xiamen.
So another approach to the 2 different names PengShan and LongXi on the gravestones(Headstones) might be that both names are right in the same " greater area".
As an example my great-great grandfather and my great-grandfather both had the name Cailing on their headstone as original village. But my grandfather had the name, HaiCheng, Fujian on his headstone.
He thought it to be more modern and easier to trace back for the later generations.
Cailing was a name of a very small village and nobody living outside China could find it, as there were many CaiLings in various provinces.
So after a long search my friends in Xiamen found the solution, Cailing was just part of the HaiCheng greater circle in Zhangzhou, but since the late seventies Cailing and many other "cuns" were regrouped by the government to the Xiamen sub-province, and not belonging to HaiCheng or Zhangzhou anymore.
The English departmentalisation of prefectures and counties, villages etc is not enough in China. In mainland China we have about 10 hierarchical departments from city till small peasant village.
See the china Atlas in the KB ( royal library in the Hague).
Anyway we will soon see with our own eyes when we will meet in Xiamen on Feb 17. I suggest also that we pay a visit to the library where professor Wu F.B. once helped me to find the books of the regrouping of " XIANS" and "CUNS" by the government in the seventies ( 1970-1980).
Till we meet in Xiamen soon !